Raw Food Forums

Here is part of a very interesting article, if anyone wishes to read it all the link is on the bottom
Peace 
Dmetri

We need to determine the appropriate quantities of fat, protein, vegetable juice and fruit to consume in order to achieve better health. This always depends on the individual but, we can make a very good general approximation with the information in this article. I have said that tremendous quantities of raw fat are important for optimal health. Fats are the most utilized nutrient in the human body. Fats are formed into white blood cells (antibodies), into lubricants to protect all cells, into solvents in conjunction with alcohol formed from fruit to remove all sorts of toxic substances, into the greatest and strongest energy possible, and into body heat to keep warm from the cold or into body coolant to keep cool from the heat. The healthiest tribes, like the Eskimo, consumed fat as 60?80% of their caloric intake. They endured the coldest temperatures. The Sambutu tribes in Africa consume 60?80% fat to endure very hot temperatures. Neither Eskimo nor Sambutu suffered any heart maladies as long as they ate their natural diet.
We must consider the make up of our gastrointestinal system -- the part of our body that digests and prepares food into substances for building, growing, regenerating, lubricating, soothing, cleansing and fueling us. Our intestine is 2 1/2 times shorter than most herbivores (animals who mainly consume vegetation, such as cows, deer and sheep). We have only one stomach while herbivores have 2 - 4. Herbivores have nearly 60,000 times more enzymes than humans to disassemble cellulose (plant fiber) to obtain the fat and proteins from vegetation and grain. Basically, we don't digest vegetables and grain well; we are not herbivores. Our gastrointestinal tract is very dissimilar to birds who eat a lot of grain (seeds) and have very short intestine. We also lack their gizzard. We cannot properly digest grain for regeneration and healing. Our intestinal shape is like some frugivores, some primates, who mainly eat fruit. However, when humans eat a lot of fruit they incur demineralization, including bone deterioration, and dental decay. Also raw fruit over alkalinizes the intestines, as do whole raw vegetables, destroying proper protein and fat digestion, and destroying our ability to combine many foods. Unlike pure frugivores and herbivores, we mainly have an acidic digestive tract, including acidic bacteria. If humans eat too much fruit and/or whole vegetables, they lose more and more the ability to digest food in its raw state -- the state of unadulterated vitamins, enzymes, minerals, fats and proteins.

http://www.karlloren.com/Diabetes/p73.htm

I don't have time to post now, but wanted to add a couple of items:

* The China Study (the largest long term health study to date) found the best levels of health in those eating less than 10% of their diet from fat.
* A diet of straight fruits and vegeables with lots of greens, when analysed for nutrients will actually satisfy basic fat requirements in the human diet. All cells have fat, and even an apple has a small amount of fat.
* The type of fat matters alot in terms of health impact.
* There are many many examples of long term raw vegans doing wonderfully - Doug Graham (high fruit, low fat), Gabriel Cousins (higher fat, lower fruit) etc. I personally think there are many different types of diets available to humans on the planet, and we all need to find what works for us physically, emotionally and that also fits our personal values and beliefs.
* Herbivores eat grass - people don't. That's why we see people juice wheatgrass and compost the pulp. Vegetables don't fall in the same category as grass and are totally different when it comes to digestion.
* Definitely agree grains are not ideal, hense the fact that almost all grains are eaten cooked
* There are so many variations of what impacts health and what people do best on. Science can be used to show 'proof' for either way. I've actually seen similar information as above used both to show that people are natural vegans, and also to show that we're not.

More later....

Cheers,
Sheryl

i know this is an old post, but i've been researching this kind of thing a lot recently and just wanted to add some things!
all this is completely off the top of my head so i have no evidence to back it up, and a lot of it is my own speculation, but it is interesting to think about isn't it? ^_^

about chinese and east asian diets in particular, i read that these may actually be high in saturated fat, but not directly. it's apparently because white rice is very efficiently converted into saturated fat by the body, but not whole rice. chinese people and other societies like japanese and korean have for a long time eaten mostly if not only white rice instead of whole.

this is only my opinion, but i really think that if you have a very efficiently working body that has a high level of absorption of food, the amount of fat present in fruit and greens could at least be adequate enough to replace the fat portion of your own cells since fat is present in all cells in a small amount.

i agree about the type of fat mattering a lot - and the research tends to say that it would be most beneficial to consume most dietary fats as (raw, of course) saturated fats and a bit of monounsaturated fat, with a small amount of essential fatty acids (which would probably be present in sufficient quantities in fruits and greens ^_^
the reasoning behind this is that saturated fats are the least prone to oxidization, and the easiest to use as energy. and coconut contains the most saturated fat out of anything i know of, plus it contains a lot of lauric acid, the most prominent of fatty acids in mother's milk.

another interesting fact i've discovered is that in most raw plant foods containing a high level of fat, the amount of vitamin E usually reflects the amount of polyunsaturated fat contained within the food, in that the more polyunsaturates the food contains, the more vitamin E it also contains. i really think this is nature's way of preventing oxidization since polyunsaturated fats are the most prone to oxidization, and vitamin E is an antioxidant that is soluble in fat.

yup grains are definately not the best. all traditional healthy societies fermented, sprouted or processed grains in some way to deactivate their phytate inhibitors and other constituents that would not be beneficial if consumed.

yeah so the debate goes on. at the moment, i'm trying out very low fat, and it's working really really well. i tried out high fat also which worked well in terms of energy, suppressing appetite, and skin\hair\nail condition but didn't feel as hydrating. i think it's a good idea to also not eat too much on a high-fat diet because fat is really concentrated.

anyway, some things to think about!

thank you for a well written post...

knowledge is power,i love to learn...and it is so important to be constantly reading and learning on our raw journey...

had a catch up with Harley the other day....it was seriously wicked to sit down and talk and talk about raw and our journeys and experiences....we were firing...and we both understood what each other was talking about....and if at all possible i left feeling more motivated and inspired by raw...and the amazing people i have met,and yet to meet on the same journey..

i am sublime on really low fat.and very high fruit...i feel incredible...and i know i must never over eat...as it really affects my demeanour and emotions...so for constant peace lightness and happiness..this works best for me...nuts,seeds and dried fruits,no go for my body...i always properly food combine...and i am resonating with this...and 1/2 an avo per day...or every other day...keeps me going in the fat intake department.

.

i'm a knowledge addict also rawneet ^_^
i think scientific studies and research just doesn't cover everything there is though. i pretty much just follow how i feel and don't even think about vitamins or minerals or essential this or that!

yeah harley's really cool to talk to. just about everyone is!

i've actually been eating nothing but sweet fruit and greens for a week now and i have seen some huge improvements, i think mostly due to the massive cleansing action. i'm not eating very much either (a bowl of grapes, a small rockmelon and half a head of lettuce is my usual daily menu) but i have a lot of energy and i can breathe so much better now!
i'm not even craving fat. could be because it's summer, higher temperatures, more sunlight.

sublime is the word alright ^_^

Hi guys,

Fat intake has been a little bit of an issue for me lately.

I follow the Ann Wigmore model rather than the Natural Hygiene people like Doug Graham and Fred Petenaude. The two are actually consistent with each other, it's just a slight difference in emphasis and approach, but the Ann Wigmore model can lead to higher fat intake (if the rules are "bent") because of the use of soaked nuts and seeds - even though this is cautioned against. NH will always lead to lower fat intake.

So, three weeks ago I drastically reduced my fat intake. I was eating an avodado everyday, and too much in the way of sprouted nut butters and sauces and coconut based sauces and mayonnaises. Now I only have one batch of almond cream (i cup of almonds) per week (for sauces and mayonnaises) and the pulp for essene bread and vegetable loafs. Interestingly, as NH'ers would have predicted, I found myself wanting more fruits. I have noticed a small increase in energy levels, and a more stable apetite. I generally feel better with higher fruit and lower fats.

Cheers,

Brett

Wow you all know so much! Great info, from all of you!

I've never given fats much thought until now. I probably eat too much, I enjoy 3-4 avocados a week, handfuls of nuts and olive oil. I might experiment to see if I feel different on a low fat diet, as recently I've been feeling heavy and bloated.

Still going low(er) fat intake, now nearly 2 months. I've noticed a drop in weight, more energy and a more easily satisfied apetite. I'm also now thinking about the types of fats. Peanuts bad, walnuts good.

Brett

fats are essential as we all know. and all fruit contains some fat. so to eat no fat is impossible.

but nuts etc are higher in fat, as we all know.

more fat in the bloodstream equals less oxygen. especially the case with cooked fats.

less oxygen equals less life.

is this the reason that almost every raw person ive met raves about how good they feel on fruit and greens only.?

if its raw plant food ,i will eat it. but my pick is the low fat stuff.

the most intense moments of my life have been when im pinging on juicy fruits and hand picked celery greens.

this photo of me on your left was in thailand. i had just won  a durian speed eating competition. and was off my face, on life.

then the organisers wanted me to go a round straight away with the pineapple eat'n crew.

no time to explain food combining/acid fruits/ fatty fruits to the competition organisers. it was time to chow!

i was on the chair with the tv camera in my face and getting a pineapple sinus infusion. i came fourth. and had to leave the cheering crowd as i was finding it hard to comprehend what was going on.

getting paid to eat fruit by non english speaking friends on national tv in a foreign country.

then one night i was flicking channels on tv and the news came on. there i was in the corner of the screen with a chunk of durian, as the news reader talked about me. then i got about 4 minutes of me on tv during primetime!

i was tripp'n big time!

what a laugh.

i almost got admitted to hospital for a burst ego.

good thing i have travel insurance........

and dmetri, the average age of death for eskimos is 34. osteoporosis and cancer being the main causes. the skeletal system just crumbling due to all the acid in the blood from the animal products.

Early in my battle to control my asthma was to cut back on fat and to control my weight. Once I cut back on fats, then there was no need to watch my weight.

Now if you think about, when you eat fats then they start to circulate in the bloodstream. The more fat circulating the less oxygen carrying capacity of the blood.
Later I learnt that in fact the oxygen molecules are actually encapsulated by excess fats. In asthma the battle isto get enough oxygen to keep the body and especially the brain oxygenated due to the inflamation of the lungs. During a severe attack I would often  halucinate due to lack of oxygen.

For me the only way for me to stay healthy is to eat minimal fats. I find the 80.10.10 diet extremely beneficial to my cause.


Joss

oh yeah...low low fat,high fruits and greens is sublime,and my body really resonates with this for sure...as soon as i try crackers and nori and olives...my digestion just shuts down slows down and i suffer...oh they are tasty,but if i'm not frantically itching all over or feeling like a complete moody cow,i feel like i can't breath because of the pressure in my tummy...

but that's just me...i seemed to tolerate these heavier salty type foods say 6 or so months ago,but since low fats high fruits...my body doesn't cope well with these foods...ah well,i eat simply and as close to nature as poss...

a certain raw foodie friend of mine will enjoy the above goodies,as she will be getting heaps of what's left of my raw tuesday order...waste not want not eh...

i'm a lean bean,but the longer i'm drinking the gs...the more muscle and muscle definition is happening...very awesome...as joss said,no need to watch my weight ever on this way of eating....and all those lush fruits OMG...

how huge are ripe squidgy figs...wow,momma i looooooooooove em...
sharing the lerv....

Durian eating story...hahahaha

You are all right.. fats just don't agree, but we do need 'em (some). Interesting point about fats and oygen.. Also, the chlorophyl molecule (in greens, and especially wheat grass) is very similar in structure to haemoglobin (red blood cells). It's like emerald green blood. I'm thinking "added fats" in the form of nuts and avos are completely unecessary for essential fat requirements? Agree? Also, there's a big difference between raw nuts and well soaked nuts. And some nuts are self contained poor food combinations (peanuts, for example are high in proteins and carbohydrates)

Brett

its all about seeing what works for us and what our bodies are saying.

Yep Harley the longer you eat this way the more you pare the diet. I guess its just a case of listening to your body and acting on it.


Joss

definitely H..

and yep to joss-one who really understands- i certainly have pared it down,but it's simple and it works,and now i have no interest whatsoever in foods that are anything but "wholefoods"....plucked from the tree and straight onto my plate so to speak...most processing i do is blending my gs...it works for me and i feel amazing...

others are different and that's wonderful-just so long as we're really listening to our bodies... :wub:

... so tell me how to make a green smoothie.

- how much and how often?
- ingredients and proprtions?
- what about adding wheatgrass juice?

I'm a gs virgin

Brett

well-i am so glad you asked-this is a big passion of mine-the gs if you hadn't already guessed..

well i drink it throughout the day...around 1-2 litres-but my husband drink around 750mls per day,1 glass morning 1 glass evening...listen to your body you will know how much you need..

ingredients well....i think to begin with something a little milder in the greens department...

i have a 1250 blender..

and an average blend would be..

2 big bananas
1 large mango
1/2 bunch of carrot tops(mild tasting and yummm.)
handful of red grapes
800mls to 1 litre of water
and blend blend blend...
you could definitely add your wheatgrass..
and i put a tsp of coconut oil in this blend today...use that occasionally for a different twist to the gs..
have a look on the topic green smoothies with a twist...there's so many recipes on there for gs it will boggle  your virgin gs mind...LOL..

whip up a gs,and let me know what you think...the results i am experiencing are miraculous...more on that in the above mentioned topic..

 :wub:

another simple one is-say 4 bananas and as much basil as you want with water-you can adjust water accordingly depending on how thick you like the gs..

I personally think that 1 litre of water in a green smoothie is too much, as it will dilute the stomach secretions and HCL.

Its always best to have less than a glass of water with each meal, regardless of whether the meal is fruit, raw, cooked, smoothie, crackers, junk, whichever.

I prefer my water straight!  Ideally leave at least 30 mins before or after a meal to consume large amounts of water.

Brett,

I would suggest heading over to the Green Smoothie with a twist topic too, as Neet said.  So much inspiration...

My technique for green smoothies is different again.  I fill my blender with greens (baby spinach is good to start, or lettuce or a combo), then I add just a dash of water to make it mulch.

Then I go mad with the fruit.  2-3 bananas, 2 peaches, 2 kiwi fruit, a pear etc.  Whizz whizz.  Sometimes I top up with water, but I like it quite thick.

As a rule, I find that if you use pineapple and citrus (which I don't combine with bananas - gurgle tummy!), that you get a chewier blend.

So delicious.  Once you get started, you might just be hooked like the rest of us.  Have fun!

Miss g

I put about 1 1/3 cups of water in my smoothies. I like them thick and not runny. Basically I do the same as Miss Giggles and blend the green in just enough water to blend and then add 2 mangoes and 5 bananas ( 4 frozen)

I likes them like this I does.


joss

interesting re;the water amount jen..i find it much easier to digest when the smoothie is a thinner consistency...

will check up on what victoria says in green for life about that..


but then i did say 800mls to 1000mls,depending on size of blender...and i do really pack in the greens...so it's not watery but not chunky either...so it would run off a spoon not 'plop'...
just checked green for life...average water in a 1 litre jug  blend is 2 cups-so that's 500mls...so in my 1250ml jug..i am on par with her suggestions.....

good enough for me...and she has a big chapter on HCL ect jen..

Neet - Whenever I get my raw tuesday shipment, ill be reading Green for Life straight away with no pee breaks!

Thanks team, I'll go check out that thread.

jen-you will love it love it love it....

darling you must pee-trust me if you're drinking gs you will be :rolleyes:

mwah  :wub:

what are peoples opinions on fruit fats (eg avocado, durian,) versus  non fruit fats eg nuts , olive oil, coconut butter? I feel myself much more drawn to fruit fats on an instinctive level, as well as finding them digesting easier. It is also knowing that these other products have been processed/gone through a middleman before ready to eat. Modern processing is definately NOT a good thing! Was watching a program on tv this evening and orangutans were pulling durians from the treetops and gorging on them - certainly fits in with the notion that man kind and his ancestors are high fruit eaters.
What do people think?.