Raw Food Forums

i'm all into growing ya own food including fruits and veggies and love to hear from others, i live with  4 others on a big farm with about 80 different types of fruits and nut tree, we practice organics and try to incorporate permaculture ideas on to the farm, i would love to hear from other farmers and of ideas of producing food in sustainable ways

one question i have is about what fertilizers to use as many manufactured ones like dynamic lifter and organic life are cooked to a high temperature and the standard organic hot compost method reaches unnatural high temperatures,  i have started to learn a bit about biodynamics and that may be promising

hey james when i was in perth(now in queensland) i used mineral rock dust as a fertiliser, it was amazing the difference it made, i didn't have allot of luck with permaculture methods there, i think they need much more water than i was giving them. but my last couple of crops were huge from the rock dust. i was wanting to try the terra prata method of adding char but no one was selling char, but i saw on the abc the other week a story about avacado farmers adding char so you must be able to source it somewhere. it is also carbon negative. i also read if you applied 4 tonnes of rock dust to every arable acre on the plant you would lock up all the carbon we would need to stop climate change.

les

I can only say, get Anastasia books and read what she has to say on this topic.

www.ringingcedars.com.au

it is spread all accross the volumes, the question of fertilizers is discussed I think in book 4 ?

I went to an organic gardening talk last weekend that raised an interesting idea of using charcoal.

The idea was to take the charcoal from a fireplace or such, put it into a bag and bash it up until it was broken into small pieces and dust.  Then to let it soak in a bucket of water with a cup or so of seaweed or other liquid fertaliser (worm farm liquid would be good too) for a few days until it acted like a sponge and absorbed up the water.  They then mixed it in a 1-1-1 ratio with soil and sand, to have made a slow release fertaliser, because the charcoal doesn't break down but has drunk up the nutrients form the water soaking treatment.  This mix was then spread out in the garden, a couple of handfuls when planting a tomato plant etc, mixed into the soil when planting.

The idea came from the studies of why crops in the Amazon were so productive, and traces of charcoal were always found in the soil from the burning used to make clearings there.  Studies in China are reporting 300% increases in crops by use of charcoal in the soil. 

Returning charcoal to the soil is also helping the carbon emission problems - so long as you're using charcoal that is sitting around as waste, and not burning things to make it for your garden! Something to think on and experiment with that's for sure.

I did some work on a biodynamic farm a while back as part of an assignment for my conservation and land management certificate.  To fertilise their land they would fill a cow horn with manure and bury it underground during Winter.  At the end of Winter they would dig up the horns, take out the manure, and specially stir it with water before applying it.  It's a common practice on biodynamic farms.  It's called Preparation 500 and there's heaps of info on it if you google it.  25 grams of fertilizer is enough to fertilise an acre of land.

In universities and laboratories all over the world, scientists are racing to help find a solution to halt climate change.

And the answer may come from deep in the Amazon. …Not from rainforests or exotic species, but ancient soils left behind by lost civilisations.

In the Amazon basin, huge expanses of dark fertile soil called terra preta are becoming highly prized by farmers and ecologists alike. Full of charcoal, pottery shards and compost, they’re believed to have been created by pre-Colombian civilisations. Even after thousands of years, terra preta stores more than twice the carbon of other soils.

In a NSW shed a giant toaster is making syngas by slowly burning crop residues at low temperatures. The by-product of this renewable energy is a charcoal that retains about half of the original carbon.

US bio-geochemists studying terra preta are getting together with Australian engineers making biofuels. The result is “Agrichar” technology. It uses the charcoal by-product to bury carbon in topsoil where it’s needed for agriculture.

Their early results promise green energy, soil restoration and greenhouse mitigation from an affordable technology that can remove more CO2 from the atmosphere than is released.

Thanks for that more in-depth explanation lesbc, that is exactly what was being talked about in the talk I went to last weekend!  But it was by a gardener who was experimenting with bringing it to a "in your own backyard" level as well.

Wow, there's a lot of information packed into those 7 posts.

James, I'm on an acre, trying to make a go of the vegan farm thing.. just going by the seat of my pants really, learning as I go.

There has been some interesting stuff done with using sea water as not only a mineral fertiliser, but also for irrigation generally.

I think a Garden Pictorial thread might be in order ???

wow some interesting ideas so far, thanks, the garden pictoral sounds interesting as well, say more...i've a large pile of dead trees etc to burn i guess that it would  be good to spread under the trees, maybe i could see this as somewhat possible in nature eg a bushfire going through an area and regenerating it with pot ash, i like the idea of using what we have on the land here instead of buying in or transporting in materials for the trees and vegetables, its is annoying to think most of the organic food we buy has been raised on very hot composted organic materials, a completely unnatural process yet approved by all the organic groups in oz,

Youu need to burn the char in a special environment so as not to release all the carbon thereby defeating the object.. What makes the charcoal different from your BBQ is that it comes from wood burned in ovens with out much oxygen. A process known as pyrolysis.
 So this char, organic matter, in this terra preta is much more efficient in doing what we want all soils to do, to retain nutrients for plants, to reduce the losses of nutrients, to reduce the CO2 that goes out of the soil, to enhance soil productivity, and store more carbon.

I've never heard of compost heat being unnatural.. that shakes my brain, I don't understand.

The more I get into growing food, the more I come to believe that the bottom line is water. If you've got water, you can grow stuff. Even if you have infertile soil, it can be transformed if you apply water consistently. I like the idea of letting the land and the plants do the work for you.. put things in place, but then let nature take over.

All this makes me think of the plight our farmers are in.. what a horrible situation.

In Gin Gin (near Bundaberg in Qld), where they have dire water shortages, they have an interesting experimental project going using wick irrigation. The web site is a bit all over the place, but it looks really good, and apparently they are getting great results.

http://waterright.com.au/gin_gin_school.html (http://waterright.com.au/gin_gin_school.html)

http://waterright.com.au/home-19july2007.html (http://waterright.com.au/home-19july2007.html)

composting is natural! the heat acquired by companies is high but this does happen in nature from time to time, they are just replicating the extremes, but usually humus is made at lower heat but the humus is 'the dead and decaying remains of plant and animal matter'. remembered that one from school.

ur right brett water is the answer, the site i just looked at is in denile about the drought and global warming link shame they see it that way, alot of farming practices are about denile. we need to farm where there is water and stop growing so many grain crops, stop growing lawns. stop subsidizing farmers who live in what would be considered permanent drought land. the whole agriculture industry is upside down. needs to refocus or perish.

australians need to wake up to themselves on water use. my water was cut of yesterday and i managed to survive on two litres in the morning including washing, i probably would of used hundreds normally and not even noticed.

Good points there too about water.

With just water you can grow a green manure crop to dig into the soil, which will improve it by adding nutrients and it will self compost & make that soil able to hold more water in the future.

Wonderful information in this thread, loving it :)

I haven't read all the posts, so don't know if this has already been mentioned......I have to run out in a minute so no time to read...lol.....sorry......but is there a natural alternative to herbicides to kill nut grass.  I ordered a load of soil....but obviously it came with a mountain of nut grass bulbs in it and now I can't even see my little seedlings.  I've been told about Sempra, but that a herbicide and if I don't have to use it and find an alternative, that would be FANTABULOUS.  But I'm at my wits' end with trying to dig them out.....yes, it's driven me nuts!!  So I'm a step away from using the Sempra.

Hope someone can help.

Rita :heart:

I would be very tempted to call them and ask for your money back... purchased soil should not come full of weed bulbs. Isn't it normally screened or something? Or at least taken from deep levels of soil free of weeds? I've had soil delivered a few times, never full of weeds. Just a thought... and might be easier than trying to fix the problem yourself. Have them give you better quality soil!

RoarOnRaw, I'm going through the exact same thing right now!!!! I asked my Mrs the same question.. we came to the conclusion that there's nothing, but we really have no idea. I think I got mine from the bales of hay we bought last year.. no more economy mulch. I suspect we got some other weeds from them too. It's really horrible stuff, isn't it. I weeded a whole section of my mandala.. thought I was thorough.. and then it just came back a week later.. grrr. So now, we're using a different technique: We're weeding it out one nut at a time using a 2-person method. I use the big fork, digging really deep, lifting everything up, and then lightly shake it, while the wife gently teases out the nuts. It seems to be working. The key is getting down deep enough to get the big nut. You've got respect a plant that's that good at surviving. The nut is like the trunk of a tree.. it's wood!

Getting your money back is cold comfort Sheryl, unless they come and take the nut grass back.

my nan used to use boiling water straight from the kettle to kill those hard to kill weeds, i think some eniromentally friendly councils use stem now. not mine though. but i'm glad i live on a corporate street  and the council doesn't spray here. ps saw two massive carpet pythons on my street last nite, one was on my balcony, wasn't scared or my broome so i tapped the broome on the deck and off it went, no need to harm em, hope my cats still alive tho...

Lesbc, yes, I do remember someone actually telling me about the boiling water method.  But I think I dismissed it because being in Brisbane and having a Level five water restriction imposed on us, I thought it be best not to "waste" water that way.  :-\ :-\  And with the amount of nut grass I have.....I'd need a LOOOOOOOOOT of boiling water!!!  rofl

Brett, depending on where you live, perhaps the boiling water method is good for you to use.  I think I did get that advice from a plant nursery once.  So perhaps boiling water is not so back-breaking as digging.  Those little suckers certainly live up to their name......driving us NUTS!!!  aaaaarrrrrggghhh

Thanks

Luv

Rita :heart:

you hardly need any water on each weed, just poor a small amount into the center of the weed, and when the water cools it goes into your garden for other good plants to use.. not so environmentally bad..probably the most water saving compared to all the water u'd have to drink to replace the sweat after digging up!

hokahey

les

That's hilarious, Lesbc......yes, true, the amount of H2O I've been drinking after digging it up would probably be almost the 140 litre limit that we're allowed to use per person......may be a slight exaggeration, but i get your point.   rofl

Thanks

Rita :heart:

thats the lazy lateral thinking male coming out in me..

Oh, no, if I can learn ways of doing things with less effort, but with the same end result which is less detrimental to the environment (and my little seedlings).....then I say bring on the 'lazy lateral thinking male' approach. rofl

Rita :heart:

Boiling water.. excellent, thanks Lesbc.. I have quite a few weeding situations that would be perfect for. I think I knew that too, but I wouldn't have thought of it without the prod. Thanks. With the nut grass, though, I wonder whether it would really work. I mean unless you can kill that nut, which is right down deep, it'll just come back, and I don't want to kill the worms... or other life, for that matter.

I really feel for everyone who is under water restrictions.. it just doesn't seem fair, does it. Did anyone see on the news how Kerry Packer is getting around his water restrictions? (even the rich have to obey the rules.. or do they?) He's buying huge quantities of water, trucking it in, and filling huge tanks at his home.. and he's splashing it around all over the place, like it was merely money!

I'm convinced we have underground water on our block, but I'm too scared to put down a bore in case I'm wrong.. and I waste a lot of money. But imagine what you could do if you had ample free water on tap. It's definitely time for us to get some tanks though. Does any one else have tanks?

you'll probably kill twice as many worms digging them up. i'm sure if you keep pouring the boiling water on it will eventually kill off the weed as it won't be able to photosynthesize, i could be wrong as i've never had nut grass.

mulching is great for weeds.
or
putting some dark plastic etc on top of them kills them via no light..

paper is great b4 u put the mulch on, black plastic acidifies the soil so u have to be carefull of that, another alternatve which doesn't acidify is corigated iron, kills weeds with heat, like boiling water i guess.

Something I have been experimenting with lately is using my steamer to get rid of weeds. Not sure it would work on the nut grass though.  

I don't think it would kill nut grass. The "nut" can sit there dormant for months, and then just appear out of nowhere.. it's like a subterranean tree! The "grass bit" is just the leaves. If only it was edible.. hmmm... maybe it is? Nut grass juice.. I wonder..