Raw Food Forums

As I become increasingly anxious about not creating 'food issues' in my children (I have spent a lifetime dealing with them myself), I am trying to find a balance in providing my kids with a healthy foundation and giving them the choice of what they eat.

We are a home learning/natural learning (I don't like the term homeschooling because we don't 'school') family and I have recently been opening to the idea of radical unschooling.  In my hazy definition, radical unschooling is about letting go of the 'control' and giving them freedom to make their own choice (with guidance).  I like to view it as being in partnership with my children to come up choices that suit our family.  By giving them freedom of choice with regards to food, it is suggested they will become less attracted to it (ie, the attraction of the forbidden fruit).  If all foods are available to them and nothing forbidden, then certain 'forbidden' foods lose their power and just become another food.

I am seeing this increasingly as my children get older.  When J (now nearly 6) was about age 2, I remember how he would just hover at the food table whenever we went to group gatherings (homebirth meetings, breastfeeding gatherings, etc.) and eat all of the foods that we didn't have in the house (eg, biscuits, cake, rice crackers, etc).  Anyone would have thought that I didn't feed the poor child!  It was easy back then to let him do this on the infrequent occasion (instead of making it into an issue to lock horns over) and then return to our healthy food filled home.  As they get older though they are more aware of the variety of foods around them and are asking for some of the foods to be invited into our home.

These days, ice cream is the big attraction.  Whenever we go out I am always asked if we can get an ice cream.  I have tried the frozen blended fruit option but they want the dairy option.  I have also tried having it in the house to see if it loses its 'power', but before I could complete the experiment I went crazy with watching them eat ice cream 8 times a day!  :(

It takes time for foods to lose their power and become just another option, but are there some foods that never lose their power?  :shrug:  I know for myself, when I eat something to satisfy a sweet craving I can't ever really satisfy it and look for more and more sweet stuff.  To overcome this I need to have a complete break (about 3 days) from the sweet foods I am craving to overcome these cravings.  The same with cheese and bread...when it is in the house the kids are constantly asking for it but when I can talk my partner into having a break from them, then they are forgotten about and everyone just finds other options.

So, by giving them freedom to choose rather than me telling them what they can have, will they eat what their body requires or will they just be feeding early developing addictions?  :shrug:

My son hasn't got much of a sweet tooth but LOVES anything like bread, pasta, rice, etc. and will just eat these all day if given the opportunity.  Now, I am left wondering is this because he has become addicted to these foods or is there something in these foods that his body requires. 

I suppose I am really interested in people's thoughts on our role as parent/guide/facilitator for our children.  In trying to find the balance as a mother and as a guide for these souls until they can freely make their own choices without my assistance, I am constantly reminded of the following beautiful poem that many of you are probably familiar with:


My journey to have discovered the benefits of raw foods has taken me 35 years and its MY journey towards finding what is right for ME.  It doesn't necessarily mean that it is right for my children...what do you think?  The different platforms I have come to regarding 'what is healthy' makes me think that I don't want to be saying to them 'this is a healthy option', 'cooked food isn't healthy', etc.  Also, my partner eats meat (as well as many other people I cherish) and they believe that eating meat is healthy so it doesn't feel right to use the term what is healthy/not healthy.

I think another thing for me is that food and healthy eating are such a big focus for me (even though I still regularly put crappy foods into my body!) - maybe its my body's way of trying to mend the years of abuse it went through when I was younger.  I think I am probably creating 'food issues' in my kids by having so much of a focus on not creating 'food issues'!  When my son asks me to suggest to him what he can have for a snack, he now quickly adds 'not fruit or vegies' because I have put such a focus on them in the past that now he doesn't want to hear about them!  When I first discovered this happening, I completely stopped suggesting fruit and vegies and it took him a few days of completely not eating anything from these groups and then he slowly started re-introducing them.  I don't want to put so much pressure on them to eat raw that when they get older, they fully rebel and eat anything as long as it doesn't contain fruit or vegies in it!

If you have made it all the way to here, then thanks for reading as I express my thoughts.  This has become a bit of a ramble and I have asked lots of questions because I am really keen to hear different opinions and thoughts about a topic that is so important to me - guiding my children in the best way I can (for the highest good in all). I have wanted to post something about this topic for a few weeks but just haven't found the time and energy to put my thoughts into words.

Would love to hear others' thoughts on this topic.

Hugs,
Jacki
xx

Hi Jacki - this is a major problem isn't it? I am a mother of two, so I really relate to what you are talking about; also on the level of my OWN food problems, stemming from my own parents etc.

What to do? Control? no. Educate? YES. Have some guidance on small children? Absolutely. Even though we do not 'own' our children (this is my take, please remember) we do have a massive and possibly the most important responsibility in the world; to bring them up as evolving human beings, teach them the freedom of their OWN responsibilities! (Had a discussion about this once with a centrelink worker who was insisting that I 'go back to work'. Isn't raising a child to be a responsible human the best and hardest 'job' in the universe?)

I do believe we place unncessesary guilt on ourselves as mothers; something we probably learned from our own mothers, especially that vow 'I'm NEVER going to be like my mother!'

Whilst I try NOT to dictate to my children what to eat, I try to guide them into making good food choices. My first daughter is fussy; she doesn't even enjoy tuckshop at school - for which I am profoundly greatful. Her tuckshop calls itself 'healthy' and they sell the most awful junk I've ever seen.

My second daughter (13 months) I HAVE to control what she eats. Since she is lactose intolerant, I have to give her what is nutritionally sound. I feed her lots of raw fruits and veg and hope that she acquires the taste for it, and later on will unconsciously reject garbage food.

My older daughter is gluten intolerant; and it's a blessing,  because she KNOWS there are certain things she can't eat. If she gets hungry (you know, the hungry whines!!!) I give her a choice; banana or apple. If she goes 'no', another choice; apple or strawberry; and so on until she makes the decision by herself. Sometimes she decides not to eat anything at all.

I have to admit, I do allow treat foods, but only on special occasions. Not every day.

I think this is making me all sound far more reasonable and 'worked out' than I am. Sometimes life with kids is just sheer chaos. Older daughter has decided that she is a chocoholic, so (because I've read Naked Chocolate and agree with what David Wolfe and Shazzie have to say) I am trying to guide her into eating raw and organic choc. with NO milk additives whatsoever. Not particularly ethical, but as ethical as I can be with a five year old!

Maybe the trick is just not to be too hard on ourselves? Is that the key to NOT being like our own mothers????  rofl rofl rofl

Please let me know how you are going and what you think!

Cheers, Niqi

Great question Jackie. As an unschooling mother of four children, I can totally relate to what you are saying.

Maybe suggest icecream only on weekends or something, preferably at home -- that way they’re still getting what they want and have no cause to worry if you’ll ever buy icecream again.

My kids eat high raw and have treats on special occasions. They usually want it less and less, and this is when I suggest a healthier option (like raw yoghurt in your case, still dairy but better than icecream). It may take months or years to do this, but at least you are giving them freedom while considering your family concerns.

I don’t recommend buying junk food where they could eat it all day and everyday. I did that with my children for 5 months and it was chaos. They definitely needed my guidance. It’s not like playing playstation or watching TV all day, food is additictive. Say no when you need to, and say yes, if you think if it will bring balance and harmony in your family.   

I have been looking for raw unschoolers. Where do you live?

Love and peace
Nic

I ask myself this question off and on. Depending on how confident I am feeling about my choices for that day!

We do the same as has been mentioned. High raw (most days all raw) with the occassional 'treat' - though I hate the word treat because it turns it into something special when isn't fresh, raw, organic food the real treat?

I choose the treats carefully though. Keeping the focus on fresh ingredients and the experience of preparing the meal and eating it together. I guess I treat it with the same attitude as I do raw meals.

I think removing the food labels completely is what has been the most helpful for us. I try to include the kids in the choosing of our foods - gardening, shopping at the markets, getting to know the staff at the F&V store, etc. I use descriptive words for fruit and vegetables as I am picking them, juicy, fresh, crunchy, colourful.

We smell everything and, when appropriate, tast test too. It is difficult to smell and taste test something in a package and so I think the pleasure isn't there?

I also talk with DD (nearly 7) about food miles, fair trade and food additives. Not putting my view forward as the only view, but making her aware of her choices.

DD was also a pasta addict. Pasta, bread and potatoes. With the addition of lots of fruit, spaced throughout the day, she no longer asks for those things.

I think homeschooling helps too. I was horrified at what was included in lunch boxes at kindy and Pre-P. But thankfully the teacher would walk past DD's lunch box when they were eating and say things like, 'Can your mum make my lunch?', 'You will be able to run fast and far with that in your tummy', etc. I also took fruit in sometimes for the kids to share.

Now that we are HSing, we get to prepare food together and usually those meals are simply whole pieces of fruit.

Children are smart. When we step back a little and give them choices they will generally choose well if they have been exposed to healthy, raw fruit and vegetables as much as possible. They feel how food affects them too and if we can draw their attention to it by asking the right question, it makes a difference to what they choose next time.

I think most importantly we need to relax! Take the focus off the food itself and focus on preparation, enjoying the taste, enjoying the company!

Goodluck on finding what works for you and your family!  

yeah, 'treat' is not a good term, and neither is 'junk.' I could write 'denatured food.' Any other ideas?

Niqi - you said " Maybe the trick is just not to be too hard on ourselves?"...this is something I have to keep reminding myself.  I get too caught up with the issue and serious about it - I really need to just lighten up.  I go through short phases of lightening up and then after a few days of watching them make constant non-fresh, non-wholesome choices I go a tiny bit insane!

Nic - thanks for your valued perspective from a raw + unschooling point of view.  We are in Lismore...what about you?

Thanks Emi for some helpful advice.

Sunheart, I remember reading a while ago of someone using the term 'fuel' for food - whether a certain food provides fuel ti the body.


At the supermarket today, I was reading the ingredients of something ds had asked us to get and I was explaining to him about the additives, colourings, etc that it had in it.  He said to me "I wish we could just go shopping with dad because he would let us buy all these things"!!!  :shrug:

xx

Bummer, I'm in Brisbane, QLD. Nic xx

Kids, hey! I hate it when I turn out to be the fun police and daddy is the golden goody. LOLOLOL!

Does dad agree with your food views? I find if my kids get it from both sides, they tend to accept it better. Could you negotiate with dad to do a bit of positive food chat when they're all out shopping together? Does dad get into sport and fitness? That could be one approach.

I guess I've got to accept being the 'fun police'! It's dirty job but etc etc etc!

It's also a fine line between trying to do your best and getting caught up in it all. I tread it every day, I SOOO know where you're coming from!

all the best,
Niqi

Yeah, I don't know either. Fuel is a good option Niqi, thanks. I guess that comes back to our own issues about food. I am slowly learning myself to view food as fuel. But OMG the emotional attachments!!!

Sunheart, there are some lovely AP and homeschooling mums in Brissy, though few of them are raw that I know of. But at least aware of additives and wanting to feed their kids more wholefoods. I will PM you with the link to a great forum if you're interested. If not, no worries. Perhaps posting a message in the QLD thread might get some replies too?

Niqi, so true about walking that fine line.

Remember not to be too hard on yourselves! You are all doing such a great job!  

I agreed for the kids to get some ice cream when we were shopping on the weekend.  I convinced them to go for the organic stuff rather than that awful neopolitan one (ya know the one with the 3 different colours?...and 101 ingredients).  We got it home and they tried it and neither of them like it so now there is a tub of ice cream in the freezer winking at me!

We just bought a box of bananas so I think I might chuck a few in the freezer and revisit the banana ice cream option.


I love the idea of radical unschooling and I tested it out for a while to see how it suits us.  I am now finding a more healthy balance of what works for our family, this includes feeling comfortable with saying no.

Depends on his mood, whether he agrees with my food views!  So, his ideas of a 'positive food chat' are quite different to my ideas of it.

When I ask ds (5) to cut down on the amount of bread, cereals, etc. he is having, he asks me to not have the stuff in the house as it is too tempting...I'm with ya on that my son!!! 

Nic, are you involved with the Brisbane unschooling group?  Not sure if there are any raw families though.

xx
xx

Hey Jackson, that is great news!  :yahh:

Have you read Summerhill: A Radical Approach to Child Rearing by A.S. Neill? I found this book great for putting 'radical unschooling' in perspective. Many unschooling books are written from authors with only one or two children, so I could not relate to them. I felt their approach was more child-centred rather than family-centred, that Jean Liedloff expounded in her book Continuum Concept. It took me few years to get my head around ‘radical unschooling,’ and 12 years to find relief and inspiration that Summerhill brought in my parenting. I highly recommend these two books.


Yes, I am with two unschooling and natural learning groups.

Best of luck with your hubby, it took 10 years for mine to become a vegetarian, he thought I was a veggie basher.

Love and peace
Nic

Great news for the kids...not great news for me cos I ended up eating the whole damn lot...blarrgghhh!  Oh well, its gone now and a couple of days ago I made some yummy banana ice cream just using frozen banana whizzed up in the food processor.

Thanks for the book recommendation - I will hunt around for a copy and check it out.  I am noticing the difference in my kids as I shift from being authoritarian to being child centred and now becoming more family centred - 'lets come up with a solution that works for everyone' is a common saying around here.  My kids are developing a lot more respect for others' needs.  My son (6) regularly says 'does that suggestion work for you mum?'...I really appreciate that he is aware of my needs too.