Hey Tim, great to hear from you again!
I dont need to say 'enjoy your time in china!'

love it how they still chew sugarcane over there!

anyhow, thanks for your thoughts, it was interesting.


for the earth,
Paul

Acacia Victoriae is the best species for edible seed, although 'almost' all acacia produce edible seed, many edible raw, but quite astringent when green.
The main problem with acacia seed is that they're so time consuming to harvest & dehusk...
but i guess many seeds are - maybe its just my preocupation with time that gives me that perspective!

Jen: that herb photo that you posted before - with orange flowerheads, it should be 'Thickhead' Crassocephalum crepidioides - I've never tasted it, but it is edible raw, but has a very strong flavour..

Jungle, do not be worried about the chickweed mishap, Its easy to do, & I hope it doesn't deter you from ID'ing herbs in the future! lol

Thanks louko for looking deeper, the internet often proves that there is no one answer, lol.

Thanks Freedom for you experience, its rare to find a farmer who can get everything 'right' but this couple seem to be doing a fairly good job.
It's near impossible to make any profit of truly sustainable farming - and still compete for price with other conventional farms.
It is hard to survive economically in this world - and still be 100% sustainable (and i'm sure that almost everyone on this forum, minus Harley, has some value on 'money' & agree's that it is somewhat nessecary to live.

Goats can be the most beautiful, freindly animals when treated with love & mutual respect.
(although i agree that milking an animal is not truly mutual respect - but that doesn't mean they just plain shouldn't be milked - a lovable 'win-win' relationship can still be formed)

torachanau: yes indeed, not every raw fodder is a vegan! The western A Price foundation is a huge supporter of raw milk, from here: www.westonaprice.org/splash_2.htm, just go to the 'real milk' section.
Many nutritonists see that fresh raw milk, (esp if biodynamic etc.) is a very high quality, non-allergenic food.
& it's far better when cultured, such as Kefir.

Where it stands in comparison with raw/sprouted nuts & seeds, I don't know.
I've never come across any study that proves either is superior.

No doubt, that the milk commonly found in supermarkets is terrible!

There are many practacise that can be done, to produce the highest quality milk possible:

- No grain supplementation in diet (reduces CLA content & increase milk production of lesser quality milk)

- Feed comes entirely from herb pastures, & root vegetables in the winter (like turnips & forage trees' etc.)

- pastures are devoid of any synthetic fertilizers, & have been heavily dusted with natural rock dusts (according to a soil analysis, to create minerally balanced soils)

- Paddocks are rotated once every fortnight (many NZ farmers rotate paddocks every day!)

- Paddocks are large (understocked) & have many tree's for shade, and stumps etc. for climbing (goats love to climb!)

- the above two points also reduce disease incidence

- Stock is mixed (i.e. goats, cows, ducks, chooks etc. all in the one paddock) - as different animals have preferences for different plants - hence this keeps paddocks more evenly grazed, possibly eliminating
the need to slash paddocks. downfall of this mixing, is that it can increase disease incidence.

- Pastures are sown with many different forage crops - not mono-culture year after year. (this gives the animals a more balanced & vaired diet (we all get sick of the same food!) & cycles the minerals through the soil more effectivley.

- Deep rooted trees / crops are sown (like Tree lucerne, comfrey etc.) - these deep taproots act like 'mineral pumps', that mine the minerals deep down in the sub soil - that other plants can't access, as the plant dies, the minerals become part of the topsoil layer.

- Organic Mineral licks are provided to the stock with lots of kelp (trace minerals) & Copper sulphate (Copper keeps the animal free of worms - an is not a toxic chemical like it sounds!)
this is one reason why animals chew bark - to obtain minerals such as copper, however goats have a habbit of bark, chewing more than other animals. (read Pat Colby's books)

- Animals are not 'over-milked' and are rested through the winter months.

- Milk is kept raw, and preserved using natural cultures, such as kefir (requires no refrigeration)

The above is straight of the top of my head & i'm sure i've missed a few important points.
Satisfying all of the above is hardly possible in a commercial dairy where a profit is to be made,
but it is indeed possible in a small scale, eco-village/community situation.

I feel that milk produced using the above methods (and others not mentioned) would be high quality, and promote a long life, such as that lived by the villages in the Caucus mountains.
A loving relationship could be formed between animal & human, and it'd be hard to find any animal liberation issues. (time would be better spent protesting against battery hens etc!!!)

Indeed aquacate, Norman Walkers age is a mystery/has been lied about - Wikipedia mentions that he only really lived to 99yo, but anyhow, there are others who have lived far beyond him & have consumed raw milk regulary thorughout their entire life... so there is not just ONE way of being healthy on raw...


For the earth
Paul

Sorry to have not posted back in this thread for a some time!

Missgiggles & almost everyone: Tim Low has quite a few books - the one I had mentioned, "Wild herbs of Aust & NZ" is out of print & near impossible to find - which is a shame as it was the best book on Australia WEEDS.
His other books focus more on bush tucker, that is generally harder to find in suburbia ect.
but still a great read.

Micheala: yes the book would be worthwhile for you in WA, Les Hiddens bush tucker book also includes a fair bit of WA plants.
Best option always is to do a search of your local library's catalogue, as they often have a few good books on bushtucker, such as these mentioned.

Jen: I agree that the first photo is in fact scarlet pimpernell, and has quite a corrosive taste some time after consuming - not reccomended! but indeed it can be easliy missidentified with chickweed at first sight.

second photo is not edible either - i don't know the name of it & have been meaning to identify it for a long time, but i'm pretty sure its poisonus to livestock.

third photo looks like 'coblers pegs' or farmers friend to me (from the leaf form) - however it shoud have yellow flowers, while this one has orange flowers.
the orange flowers 'ring a bell' - as i've read of it before, but cannnot recall it!


I'm sorry, but i'm reluctant to go into detial about weeds on this thread, as i'd rather put my efforts towards getting this book written & published - so that all can read the information.

I can 'almost' garrantee that when my book is published in 2009, it will be available through the raw pleasure.

If you have any identification questions, do post a picture on this thread, but you best pm - to tell me to look at it!
but i'm sure that amongst the knowlegable on the forum here, somebody such as erthmum & jungle could identify it.


enjoy

Paul

Hi Lou, there is a book being currently written on this exact topic, but wont be published until mid 2009

currently there are great bushtucker books (of limited use for sydney & most urban area's), there are a few other books that cover some weeds - but far from all.

I'm trying to bring them all together!

Indeed Urban Foraging is the go! - always cheaper than buying greens, and often more nutritrous.

best book is Tim Lows old old book - Wild herbs of Aust. & NZ - but this is out of print & I've rang every 2nd hand bookshop in Sydney & NSW looking for it! so don't waste your time! lol

2nd best book would have to be Issabelle Shipards 'how can I use herbs in my daily life?'
www.herbsarespecial.com.au/  I seriously reccomend you buy a copy! & her book on sprouts is unsurpassable - It should be sold through raw pleasure!


generally, as a very rough rule of thumb, most herbs are not poisonous - as they're quick to set seed & hence do not require alkaloid - as most plants do.
Some are bitter - this will not hurt you - so long as you don't get it confused with other tastes
Some are very sour - this will never hurt you, unless taken in excess (its just oxalic acid & inhibits calcium absorption)

Anyone that really really needs info - If you email me at paul.darrington@hotmail.com, i will consider sending you my own collection of weed info (from other books).. if you give me a good evidence that you need it! - much of it is copyright at this stage & unedited, so i really shouldn't be sending it to anyone.


happy foraging!
Paul

Thanks John, you've made it a little clearer.

& it makes sense that although these manifestations can be avoided through monitering our thoughts,
they can also be avoided using logical 'physical' methods such as the saftey glasses - for those of us who do not yet trust our control of manifestations/attractions.

At present point in my journey, I'm aware of the spiritual side of this world, but i have a hard time letting go of the physical matrix that we in - after all I've only ever seen the physical side, & never conciousley experienced any other world or state..

I learn't soo much from bliss in the past week, but understood little. however i've got the rest of my life to understand & build my own perception of this life.
Intense it was, I can not appologise for my lack of experience - requiring immense explanations, but can only appologise for the stresses that the bamboo project through at us, (not that they were in my control! or where they?)

Thankyou Rowdy - I see your point.



Something else has come to mind today - if manifestations are so powerful, that they may acutally control the flow of the universe; then what is the result of a global concern about climate change etc.?

with every negative thought about polluting industries, every protest, every time we listen to Al Gore etc - are we really manifesting the problem - or at least making it worse (somehow?)!

(Rudy's eariler post about Al Gore had more truth than i first thought!)

confused i am, but far from worried.
I'm content with my life impact on the world & the physical changes i have made so far!


with love for the earth
Paul

Rudy's evaded me, just as i finished reading the novel that this post has become..

Sorry for breaking the 10pm rule, but the sun goes down late these days which makes for a late start on the forum! lol


Rudolph & friends, I need some insight to a manifestation that occoured a few days ago, while working with Bliss.

It has to do with the Law of attraction;

Bliss & I had been harvesting much Bamboo over the last week, which involved trimming of many many 'spikey' branches...
I'd mentioned to Bliss that I was somewhat paranoid about spikey things near my eyes, and sometimes used saftey glasses.

near the end of the week, while not wearing glasses, a branch of bamboo spiked me right in the side of the eye (i'd say it entered about 1cm into my eye, but i exagerated this to 2cm in the heat of the moment - luckily it didn't damage my eye, but certainly scared the sh*t out of me! ... hmm i should think of a more appropriate phrase...

When this had occoured, I exclaimed to Bliss, 'see why i'm so paranoid about it & choose to use saftey glasses! I nearly lost my eye for life!'
however she had been observing my fear of spikey branches over the past few days, and suggested that I may have manifested the occourance by focusing on it too much..

Despite having seen the secret, & 'believing' the LOA, I found it very hard to accept this perspective! & made quite an argument over it. (which i don't want to continue here!)

Manifesting your dreams & true potential is what we often here about, but it was soo hard to believe that I actually created that poke in the eye!
Obviously, the mainstream 'physical' explanation was that I was just not paying attention, & leaned in too close without eye protection, and played 'russian rulette' with probability of being poked by a branch.
This just seems so logical - that it just happened due to my lack of concentration.

but it has not taken me long to realise how much i had been focusing on it, & that I may well have manifested the occurence after all...


So it would be wise to not focus on our fears, to clear them of our conciousness.. this is easier said than done.
on three occasions i found myself in the back of the van amongst a mass of spike branches trying to stomp them down & compress them... You cannot see them very well, & many stick up at eye level... as you try to stomp one down, you inevidtabley lean towards three others, staring you in the eye!
so how the hell do you not focus on such a threat!
to 'not worry about them' & be unaware of their presence is to play russian ruelette with your eyes - an irreplacable gift!

for this situation, i still prefer to go with the mainstream logic - to be aware of the threat & just put your bloody saftey glasses on, & become invicibile! - then it wouldn't matter what i manifest, as i'm still protected!


That probably sounded abstract & of little relavence to worry about.. but I cannot ignore the teachings of Bliss, she is truley far above & beyond me, & I must take note of what she says..

For the earth (& vision!)
Paul

I love this post and its many tangents, and I don't completley disagree with any of them.

I really think there's a solid distinction between interacting with animals, on a mutual, loving level; and animal cruelty - which can be as subtle as commercial, free-range organic chicken farming.

But it's not hard to provide a win-win situation for the animals - we provide shelter & protection from predetors, treat them with herbs to keep worms & at bay, and plant lush green-cover crops for their enjoyment.
we simply collect eggs, and leave 'enough' fertilized eggs each year to hatch.

That scenario IS practically possible, not just a theoretical assumption - & I fail to see any cruelty in that scenario.
Same is possible for any other animals, so long as you study their needs & natural diet.


Waterberry, thankyou, I've heard that statement about not having enough land to support 100% population of vegans... but true indeed that we're waaay overpopulated & also very true that not everyone is vegan & never will be - so the world can support us.

For me, its about me supporting me, & so far in my journey, I find it less work (= acomplish more) to work symbiotically (thankyou 'fbi') with animals.

also, i've given up on the ideal of 'optimal health', as i'm quite satisfied to aim for 95% optimal health or just as high as i can, while pursuing other ideals too.

So if some raw, biodynamic animal protein is not as superior as fruit - so be it, i don't care, its still insanley good!

Thanks for that you tube link to 'the town of allopath' Dmtree - its halariously true, well worth watching!


As for the lawnmowers idea Waterberry, there does exist the perfect lawnmower animal, and i went to great lengths to find it...
Its the Olde English Southdown sheep - in its origninal 'olde type' form, its a minature (growing to our knee height). So they take that much less leaves of the trees than larger sheep do.

They've become really popular in america & a quick google on their nickname 'babydoll southdown' will give you more than enough info.
However they've become quite rare in australia, & I had to get a flock sent from victoria to our farm in Coffs... There's only 2-3 breeders in Aust, so they're pretty hard to find!


Thats all for now,

for the earth,
Paul

Thanks for the pics Harley, I must of made it sound like I was pushing animal protein as if it were a superior nutriton..
no, i'm a huge advocate of plant protein, like comfrey!

This post was just an insight to what i've been noticing after my short experiences in farming, that it appears as if farming systems that incorporate the efforts of animals produce better, more sustainable results - with less work. & they often convert the 'inedible' things like scraps & grass (not that grass is inedible) to edibles like eggs & milk.

I was not speaking in terms of 'opitmal' nutrition, just resorcefullness.

I'm only assuming, but i'd say that animals have just as much a valid role on this planet than plants do - its only when we farm them intensivley, & consume them intensivley, that it causes such greenhouse problems.
to take animals out of a sustainable farming system, on the account that they produce too much CO2, is prejudice,
we might as well eliminate all the microbial decomposers (fungi) because they too produce CO2.

But anyhow, this is a vegan forum, how dare i propose such a thing, to milk a friendly cow, or collect stray eggs! lol
don't worry you didn'nt offend me! i'll still collect coconuts with you anytime! lol

Hi 'mum', no we don't put much time into the forum these days! Studies & building take up too much time.

Permaculture design courses (PDC) are generally just 2 weeks (theory) - from then on its up to the individual to experience the practical side of permculture.
I did my course a sept 06' with Geoff Lawton on his farm at the Channon (near Lismore) - I couldn't reccomend any better place to do it, but there are many other, very competent teachers around Aust.

Raw eggs go terribly into pure green (watery) smoothies, which really accentuates the raw egg flavour!
The flavour is best disguised when theyre put into creamier nut milks etc. with lots of bannana's.
there's a few flavours like nutmeg, and vanilla that seem to mask the flavour.
we sometimes use essential oils such as lemon myrtle or peppemint (only ~1 drop per smoothie!)

I wouldn't add more than 2 or 3 eggs to a smoothie, & if its just greens & fruit then don't add any egg!

I love these replies! thanks for the good info & comments.
I'll check out Steve Charter's book as a serious part of my life mission is to set up a good ecovillage - a sustainable community with food production as its focus.

I'll check out the raw permi course & would definatley like to run my own, as i intend to run some raw retreats & weekend classes from the farm in years to come!

I have not done the best job of writing the orginal thread of inspiration, but thats all its supposed to be, a seed that can  sprout.

For the earth
Paul

Sustainability is something all raw fooders aspire to, but few realise how hard this ideal really is to acheive.

Permaculture aims for a parrallel of ideals as Raw Foodism, but includes traditional foods such as meat, eggs & milk - items that raw vegans always cross out.

but what i've found in my quest for sustainability, apart from that fact that its near impossible to achieve with on a single farm (community is really needed), is that to cross animals off the list, is too shoot oneself in the foot!
A truley sustainable, minimum effort farm, is almost impossible without the aid of animals.


We all love our fruit & have planted around 70 different varieties of exotic fruit on our farm, but fruit typically requires alot of work, to produce the crop, such as netting, combatting insects, mowing etc.

a fruit orchard requires mowing every 3-5 weeks (thats alot of petrol or bio disel), and it also requires fertilizing..

So it would make sense, to run a mixture of minature sheep, ducks, chickens etc. through the orchard to keep the grass down & turn all the bugs & grass into eggs & fertilizer.

But then we end up with kilo's & kilos of fresh raw egg protein every day! (from the chooks & ducks)

This is my point: I've found that chickens are one of the easiest & most efficient producers of protein!
& to disregard them in a sustainable system, would create alot of extra work, to produce the equivalent amount of protein, by a plant avenue.

Not to mention the tremendous work they do when put to work in a vege garden! - they just make gardening easier for us!


So I make use of raw eggs in my smoothies - and the nutrition of a truley free range egg (no supplement grain at all), is really hard to beat.



What about milk?
Raw milk is a large part of my diet, but the important part is to culture the milk first! (using kefir).

There is a culture of people in the Caucaus Mountains, near Russia, who were found to have exceptional longevity, much like the Hunza's. A large part of their diet is cultured milk (the origin of Kefir), so why do we look down upon milk as a nutritous raw food?

I guess its becuase qualtiy raw milk is hard to find.

But if one had a farm, and was aiming for raw sustainability - than the farming of 'old traditional breeds' of dairy cows would really reduce their workload, and make sustainability a reality, not just an ideal.

As much as I love fruit, Vege & weeds - they could never comprise more than 80% of my diet, & they take alot more work then most animals.
truley healthy cows & chickens are certainly a part of my sustainability plan!
(our current farm is too small for cows or any dairy animal... but the chickens do most of our gardening for us!)


The main point of this post, was give 'city raw fooders' a small insight into running a farm, and how impossibly difficlut it is to produce all your own vegan food.


anyhow, criticise away!

Thanks for sharing this with us Rudolf, if its true, it shouldn't really come of a suprise - as it seems that almost everything in our world is propaganda & uses lies or false studies to create a revenue.

i'm sure you know what i mean.


But, regardless of how true the climate crisis really is, the world IS expoiting its precious resourse & polluting every part of the environment possible.
there is no doubt about that.

and while this forum is comprised of extremley ecologically aware people - the majority of society has a LONG way to go, in changing their attidude & actions towards helping the environment!