hahahhahaaa....and those last few posts....hahhahaa.....I'm not "touching" them...(roflmaoo to Sanga).

Fructose free Rudy....he he he Neet...

If he swings the other way and becomes fat-free...oh....never mind....;-)

"They" say a lotta things eh Les.

I'd just listen to your body.

Some say if you're thirsty you're already dehydrated....but I'm not so sure about that. Was having a chat with a special forces type about dehydration (they can end up in situations where dehydration can kill) so they take it pretty seriously.

Basically he reckoned thirst was a very early warning sign and you're not anywhere near dehydrated yet, however in situations where you are losing large amounts of fluid (perspiration/heavy respiration) for prolonged periods of time it's wise to stay ahead of the game and hydrate regularly thirsty or not.

He reckoned a very serious sign of dehydration was lack of hunger (or disinterest in food) which is a stage beyond thirst.

See what others say anyway....maybe you are well hydrated via diet?

Topics, like conversations, tend to wander around a bit but it's mostly relevant in my view...and I don't in any way see this as anyone trying to force their views on another, or being invasive or disrespectful.

The lack of eye contact, body-language, voice tones etc etc makes this a difficult environment to communicate effectively in at times, particularly if the topic has the potential to generate replies that go beyond simple concepts.

Now someone is gonna pipe up and say it is  simple 

I think we need some input from some others...

Ah hugs gosia.

Hugs.

;-)

I'm off to play poker...it's a fascinating game that involves maths and statistics and the tactics of high-level chess with the advantage of playing against that most unkown and unpredicatable of foes...another human...

At it's highest levels...like any game...it's pure poetry...or a Shakespearian drama...

John

Rudy...lol...creation V Darwnism?....Darwin himself said 'it's only a theory" but....where many see creation and Darwinism/theory of evolution as mutually exclusive concepts they are actually hand in glove.

Adaptive evolution is part of creation...where they parted ways is part of our "religous" and "scientific" history....blah blah...history so-called.


Geo I ain't quite following ya in one sense...I'm not focusing on suffering...I'm just attempting to adress the question gosia asked...and I think it's a valid question anyway.

Anyway....gosia..I can assure you we have a foundational misunderstanding re: words like "you" 'i" etc etc...but moreso in context of your and I understanding of the words associated with those words...

Actually Gosia your misinterpretation of what I was trying to say and my obvious lack of ability to accurately convey what I mean within this environment (it's hard enough face to face with someone) is almost drawing me to the conclusion that it's a waste of my time to even bother continuing to try...because no matter how it's phrased someone always gets the intention wrong....you (that's me) end up trying to explain in 10 different ways using various phrasings what to me is as obvious as dogs gonads ;-).

Maybe I need to work on my communication skills.

But seriously as well...some people need to work on their comprehension skills as well....not pointing that finger at anyone by the way but it's legendary online how many people respond to posts after only skim reading them and entire threads after only reading a single post.

Communication is a two way skill.

If you (i) desire to communicate to or with another you (I) do so to the best of your (my) ability and take into account their (our) level of understanding etc etc....BUT it also falls upon the listener/reader to try and understand where the speaker/writer is coming from if they (the reader/ listener) sincerely want to at least try and understand what the person is actually trying to say regardless of the individuals communication skills or the lack thereof.

There's numerous forms of discussion eh?

Some are just point-scoring debates...others try and actually get somewhere.

I have a belief that goes beyond all these communication pedantics anyway.

If you really want to understand what someone is saying, regardless of how they say it you will.

John

Gosia...


-She spins either way.


-no idea where the word "challenge"came from...in any form?..I was simply relating an experience.


Do I? Best I be rectifying that obvious error...

Seriously it's just amasing (well actually it isn't) how two people can so apparently and completely misunderstand each other while speaking the same language.

The degree to which you misunderstand me and defend your own position simply astounds me Gosia.  For example where did you get the idea that I was trying to "persuade you off your path"....or indeed even I am trying to convince anyone else that my view is right?

I'm offering my view....whether you or anyone else agrees or disagrees with anything I have to say doesn't greatly impact me either way....actually when I think about it...in hindsight-like...very-very-very few people have ever even come close to understanding me or my views...which is why I usually just smile and "play the game"....

Now....if ya think about it...

Think about it....

Isn't that what each and every one of us does to varying degrees on a daily if not minute by minute basis with most people we come across, including our own families, friends, lovers,neighbours and....drum roll....ourselves ...you name it.

Lemme ask "you" a question....how many people (and include yourself in this) do you completely 110% trust.

Are you prepared to drop your guard and be comfortable enough with the people around you who you say you love and who say they love you to be able to actually communicate on a level beyond the "norm"? Are you prepared to take that risk?

Are you prepared to drop your self defensive guards whether they be physically, mentally, or emotionally superior to others, enough to take the risk within an arena where you are not superior ?

Oh it's oh-so-easy to box or wrestle or debate in your own weight or skill division.

WHERE IS THE COURAGE WITHIN AN ENVIRONMENT YOU ARE COMFORTABLE ENOUGH NOT TO FEEL OR HAVE TO CONFRONT FEAR IN?

Courage is not the abscence of fear but the confronting and overcoming of it.

True learning is not in advancing your own understanding of your natural talents and abilities but in confronting those you have little ability in. Advancing your own natural abilities is a joy and a benefit as long as at the very least you understand the limitations involved in your own perfection.

Where is the learning in what comes easy to you if you ignore what does not come so easily.

Difficulty....

To some difficulty would mean attempting to understand a paradox or a complex question regarding our own existence...to another a difficulty may mean surviving another night in a hostile war torn environment where the very concept of actually being able to have an opinion about anything at all pales into insignifigance with having an AK-47 shoved in your mouth.

Over 6 billion fellow humans on this planet....

And we debate whether or not a certain type of raw food diet is better than another....


There really is something missing from this whole equation.

There really is.

Where is the compassion.

Where there is the love....

FOR OUR EVERY SINGLE FELLOW MAN AND WOMAN REGARDLERSS OF INTELLIGENCE,BELIEFS,SOPHISTICATION,RELIGION.....anything.??


Where;s the love?

That's where the real; courage is.

Loving without fear.

Yanno what....Unless we can start to adopt love as a race we are all screwed,.

We have become self-centred beyond belief...trapped within a sup;posed freedom of individuality that is actually the reverse of reality.

We get our full free will and individuality AFTER we demonstrate/understand the ability to truly love others.

Beam me up Scotty....

John

Actually gosia...that youtube thingy...

Reminds me...years ago...there were these excercise thingies going around where it was said it was not possible to move arms/legs etc independantly in opposite directions of each other at the same time. There was a whole bunch of 'em (excercises).

I knew this lady in Hobart (funnily enough) who challenged me to do it online...took me only a few minutes of concentration to do it...she wouldn't believe me till I web cammed it...said it was impossible....

She reckoned (and always mainatined even after I showed her) that it was not physically-mentally possible.

What that says-indicates I have no idea.

John

Or maybe the real answer remains unquestioned.

 
Yet there it remains...the suffering remains....regardless of any explanation that suits you or does not....regardless of your desire for there to be no suffering it is still there.

Regardless.....of your anger....

Or....

Or...

Or maybe if enough people stopped concentrating on the suffering and even looking for a solution via an answer to the question, but concentrated on it's opposite it would simply manifest individually and dare we even imagine...globally.

Is it better to concentrate on an answer to a perceived problem to try and gain...well what exactly...do you think the answer to the problem is in the answer to the problem or that understanding the why's to a negative is the solution?

Why is the answer to a question always deemed to be in the "satisfactory" answer to the question? You immediately limit yourself if (when) you impose this logic-path mind restriction upon yourself.

Let's simply forget the question I say...

Let's forget the answer even to the question...because I can't see any solution in any answer because there's no answer to this/these questions that is going to satisfy you it seems Gosia (or most other people for that matter).

How about we concentrate on the solution....now there's a novel idea....let's forget about our individual indignation at the suffering that obviously exists in the world....a view that removes us from individual responsibilty to a degree by removing us by a degree.

Anger is one reaction...anger implies no real degree of personal responsibilty-acceptance unless you're angry at yourself...then again sadness doesn't have any balls either...

Let's forget about the fact that whenever this topic/subject is raised in any environment it always seems to be done in an almost "third person" way that removes the people talking about it from any degree of personal responsibility for either their own or anyone elses suffering in any way shape or form. It smacks of "the blame lays elsewhere"....and unless I can understand it in the way that I want it explained.....(fill in your own gaps here).

At it's best the answer to these types of questions can evolve into solutions that simply bypass the question and seek solutions without the necessity of an answer to the original question. You should consider here that at times a question can be a trap that can entangle you into seeking an answer within very defined paramaters.

Be interesting to hear some other views.

John

Difficult questions Gosia...

And hard to "solve" with the logical mind...

Feel like reading a long post? If not...stop asking difficult questions 

So to even attempt to answer this type of question for yourself you first have to ask yourself some basic and even "difficult" questions. What do you believe in? A creator? The universe as a completely chaotic random event? "God" in some way shape or form exists or no?

To those who do not believe in a creator of some sort I'd suggest the question itself becomes irrelevant (and I've heard the question asked many times in various ways by people who profess no belief in any type of creation at all)...and indeed to many the very fact that suffering exists is grasped at as "proof" that a creator could not or does not exist.

There are many theories but no proofs that I can see...(and within that I believe the answer perhaps lays).

Different philosophies have different answers. Some believe purely in karma...the never ending cycle of birth and rebirth that can be for each individual at best a forward progression...at worst a regression...then there are variations on the karmic cycle with a few escape hatches thrown in.

Some karmic belief systems reckon each individual made specific next (this) life decisions to either evolve or pay back some kinda debt or even reincarnate to help humanity as a whole. Some see karma as an inescapable (without intervention) noose and others see it as the total responsibilty of each individual soul to work through on their own no matter how many milleniums it takes.

If you look closely you will see an underlying similarity in many belief systems ( a few different versions of it though). The similarity is that human suffering is man made and the creator (a) Knew this would happen ahead of time but it is indeed a necessary part of the evolution of a created being who has been given free will...or (b) Didn't know this would happen 'cause after all there's been a stack of successful experiments in the universe and this one's just gone belly-up, but either they (we) sort it out pretty soon or it's gonna have to be sorted for them (us).

There a whole bunch of twists and turns to the above but that'll do for an intro.

The Christian belief system (or should I say multiple systems) can be summed up the same way. Old Testament= stuck in the Karmic wheel...we are all inherently evil (except for the good bits) and needed some intervention (sacrifice of Gods supposedly only etc etc) to cover up the evil (break the karmic cycle)...entry fee varies depending on which "brand" of "modern christianity" one subscribes too.

So we end up with three basic belief systems with dozens (at least) of interpretations and variations:

1) A creator does not exist and everything is a random event including life on Earth. If that's the case I'm off to the pub-club-(fill in whatever "x" turns your hedonist crank) because ultimately I have no responsibility for anything including my own words and actions and I wish this annoying conscience-thingy would rack-off.

2) The creator(s) whoever he-she-they-it be created the universe much like a garden and only the "good fruit" is going to be harvested and the rest discarded. Being designated a "good fruit" varies greatly depending on which (now religous) beleif system you are born into, choose to adopt or choose to be brainwashed by.

3) Every created being is eternal and immortal...and is indeed going through their own personal evolution to fully grasp what free will is all about...and on top of that it seems there's a global-race conciousness as well.

The further down the path of believing in and accepting that we are indeed created beings (and if you don't personally believe that then stop reading now, you'll gain nothing from reading this) the more you begin to question the "negative" sides of life in a way that genuinely wants an answer rather than in a way that many do, which does not sincerely seek an answer, but is it's own answer...

Part of the real question here...and indeed part of the answer...is what is our individual level of responsibilty.

None of these questions can be answered with the mind...the mind may ask them..but the mind cannot answer them if the mind receives an answer from the heart... it cannot decipher it.

But If the heart asks the question...

What part of us  is it that rebels against the suffering in the world....and what part of us is it that causes it?

Why do we see ourselves so detached from it that we have to appoint blame to another...whether that other be our fellow man or our creator.

The real answer to these questions lies in each individuals inner core.

Seeking perfection...can only occur in an environment where perfection either does not or cannot exist or is extremely rare.

Trust and faith and true understanding live in the heart and soul.

You trust that each day the sun will rise... (it's been doing it quite a while now without too many apparent technical difficulties)...you trust in the ebb and flow...yet what you are actually questioning here in one sense is the dark side of your own nature.

We all have it.

We are all interconnected.

Nuff fer now.

John

This is a question I have wrestled with since early childhood.

I could put forth a lot of elegant theories but fact is...I can't answer the question to my own satisfaction let alone anyone elses.

I'll be interested to hear others views on it.

A truly valuable question.

John

Well normally Neet your ramblings don't mesh with me at all (and no doubt vise-versa hahhaa) but this post of yours did....big time.

I've even printed it out...it covers so much ground applicable to so many different things.

John

Neet....that last post of yours summed it all up for and to me.

Prolly the best post post I've ever read on this forum....gems throughout it everywhere...





Well all of it really...there's just so much in that entire short post.

So much...

John

Ah ok...slightly clearer....lol

Just as a side topic topic Rudy did ya know (you'd be one of few on here who I think may) that Australia was once part of "Mu"...the only remaining continent from the original three [two now sunk] East of us? Anyway no matter either way that's another story.

The questions you pose Rudy imply no real outside help or help "from above" or however one would want to term it. So basically your questions are based on...a reduced population...all or most(?) infrastructure gone...and no help from little green men (with small antenna's)?

Yes?

John

They are not stupid questions...lol...ya gotta get past that...it doesn't matter for example if the questions have been asked before.

It'd take you a year to read every post on here...new topics/subjects that have been covered before are always being asked about and covered again...and that's great!

There's always something "new".

You'll get your answers MB...;-)

John

Lol nah...shut it down...I just figured you'd get more people looking/responding elsewhere...

I really reccommend you start a journal...it really is a supportive environment and would be particularly beneficial to you at this stage.

John