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rawconnection My pleasure. I know very well what it is like to be hair lazy, lol.
There have been 2 people who lightened their hair without red hilights, but it depends on the starting colour. Jan in ID - on mid-brown virgin hair - with distilled water - after 2 treatments - with ground cinnamon and booster oils - no conditioner and the condition of her hair following honey lightening http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=160564&postcount=1299
Jan in ID - on mid-brown virgin hair - with the new dilution and distilled water - after 3 more treatments - with ground cinnamon and only 1/2 tblsp EVOO, no conditioner and the conditioner of her hair, after 5 treaments http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=191116&postcount=1721
HalcyonDays - on dark mid-brown virgin hair - with the new dilution using tap water - after 1 treatment - left on the hair for 2 hours - just water and honey. The lighting is dark in the before picture, so I requested a replacement picture. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=179618&postcount=1633
HalcyonDays - on the condition of her hair following honey lightening and a replacement before picture http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=179696&postcount=1635
I put together some links in the first post of the Honey thread to cover some of the most asked questiions and topics. Here they are.
A one post summary of the new honey lightening recommendations, with explanations and links. It is in my signature too. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1096
A breakdown of the above link http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1628
How often honey lightening can be done http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2323
Choosing a honey and honey lightening boosters http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2370
Honey lightening and "extras" like thickeners or conventional peroxide http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2277
pH and honey lightening http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2296
Honey lightening on hennaed hair http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2339
Honey lightening on henndigoed hair http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2341
Honey lightening and red tones http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2340
Covering a honey lightening treatment http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2404
Doing roots only with honey lightening http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2371
Factors that influence changing an existing hair colour http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2342
Vegan lightening recipes (no honey) http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2334
3 things reported to discolour hair http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2364
Where to buy distilled water in different countries http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2369
Differences between an SMT and honey lightening recipes http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2379
Honey and coughs and an all natural vegan (no honey) cold remedy, plus information on coumarins and cassia cinnamon http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=2380
How much can honey lightening lighten hair colour?
Pictures of honey lightening with the new dilution http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1906
Pictures of honey lightening with just honey and water http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1907
The long Pictures Post of some reported results with honey lightening http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1095 http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=148
This is a condensed version of the original post of the new dilution and treatmrnt. An Australian member of LHC, found it easier to measure her treatment in grams e.g. 50 grams of honey requires 200 grams distilled water.
A breakdown of the newest honey lightening recommendations, which have been reported to be working out very well.
Patch test any of the ingredients not previously used on scalp or skin.
1. Choose a honey - the Successful Honeys List http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...ount=856itamin
If one cannot be found - try a dark coloured honey blend - raw or pasteurized - both have been reported to work equally well. Dark coloured blends were reported in research, to have higher peroxide levels than lighter coloured blends. A dark coloured, single source honey, does not necessarily have a high peroxide value - it depends on the plant source.
Jarrah honey - highly recommended - it has a very high peroxide value. More information and suppliers can be found here. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1266
Some honeys naturally contain higher levels of Vitamin C. Avoid using Anzer, buckwheat, linden flower, locust flower, mint and thyme honeys.
2. Use distilled water only. It contains no minerals. Minerals can deplete the recipe peroxide (so can Vitamin C, see #5). Conditioner is no longer recommended for honey lightening. Its ingredients and lack of water content can interfere with results. The same applies to coconut cream and milk (they contain minerals and can contain Vitamin C, as well as not enough water to properly dilute honey).
3. Use the new dilution (4 x the amount of water to honey by weight) - e.g. 1/8 cup honey needs 3/4 cup or 12 tablespoons distilled water, 50 g honey needs 200 g distilled water etc. Here is a conversion link. http://www.traditionaloven.com/conve...surements.html
4. Do not apply heat to any of the recipe ingredients at any time. Peroxide containing boosters are ground cardamom, ground cinnamon, extra virgin olive oil and coconut oil.
5. Do not add lemon juice, or any other ingredient that contains Vitamin C to a recipe, like tomato products, which are no longer recommended. Hydrogen peroxide oxidizes Vitamin C, and is depleted in doing so.
6. Mix the treatment at room temperature and let it sit for 1 hour, also at room temperature, to allow the honey to produce peroxide in advance of application or use it right away and the honey will produce peroxide while on the hair.
7. Apply the treatment to wet or dry hair if there is no aloe gel on it - aloe gel contains Vitamin C, or a leave-in treatment with Vitamin C, heavy residue, or a large amount of oil on the hair (a large amount of oil will act as a barrier to the water). If there is, wash or rinse the hair first. The treatment can be applied with a tint, blush, pastry brush and/or a spray or squirt bottle.
8. Pin up, then cover the hair securely with plastic (wearing a swim cap is recommended), to keep it out of the way, competely wet (a must) and contain drips. Leave the treatment on the hair for about 1 hour. __________________
Jarrah honey is known to have a very high peroxide value.
“WA scientists claim jarrah honey benefit Manuka honey .... New Zealand honey .... peroxide levels of about 18 per cent on average .... But we’re finding peroxide levels 54 per cent higher, with an average of about 28 per cent .... a very big increase ...." http://www.beelinehoney.com.au/Jarrah.pdf
see "Comparing Different Types of Honey" - date 2008 " .... Jarrah honey .... contains higher amounts of glucose oxidase .... " http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/nem175
Glucose oxidase is the enzyme in honey that produces hydrogen peroxide.
Jarrah honey suppliers I found and contacted - prices and shipping costs vary as will stock amounts. There are no doubt more suppliers out there - this to start you off. As more are reported, I will add them to this list.
International shipping will be noted with an asterisk *.
*1. Their price list and they report Jarrah honey in stock (confirmed June 2008). They do ship internationally. Prices http://www.beesneez.com.au/price-list.html Contact page http://www.beesneez.com.au/contact.html
*2. Yes to Jarrah honey in stock (confirmed June 2008) and they ship internationally. This one seems to be fast on replies to inquiries. Contact page http://www.beehappy.com.au/aboutus.htm Order page with prices http://www.beehappy.com.au/orderform.htm
I made a mistake in the last post re calculating the new dilution. This is a recent post from the honey thread which should help.
The basic honey lightening rules are:
1. No heat is to be used with any honey lightening ingredients at any time (body heat does not count). All ingredients should be mixed at room temperature only.
2. The new dilution is 4 x the amount of water (distilled is recommended) to honey by weight. Weigh the honey or convert, e.g. 42.5 grams of honey = 2 tablespoons = 1/8 cup = 1.5 oz x 4 = 6oz = 3/4 cup US, or 12 tablespoons distilled water needed for a treatment. Conversion tables and a calculator are in this link. http://www.traditionaloven.com/conve...surements.html
For less to no drips, 1 tablespoon honey can be used to 6 tablespoons distilled water, on wet hair.
3. The hair must be kept very wet both before being covered and during the time that a treatment is on the hair. Wearing a swim is recommended. Another option is to mist the hair with leftover treatment during the 1 recommended hour, that a treatment is on the hair.
These rules are based on successful honey lightening reports and research.
I did hear back - apparently I have the copright to my posts.
I therefore give you permission to quote them here - provided that you say where you got them from as you did - it was fine.
I will be happy to help out here - as I do on LHC.
I have and continue to do a lot of honey research - however my recommendations are based on the accredited reseach I find - I do not do the research myself - and the reports in the Honey thread.
I do not use honey lightening on my hair - I have used it to lighten freckles a bit on my hands.
Even if I did use it on my hair - I cover my grey/white streaks and condition it with catnip tea - lightening it would be counter productive to that - and my scalp is sensitive to honey - an irony - my results would just be that - my results.
There is a Catnip for Split Ends thread on LHC - based on my posting that catnip tea for me - used with shampoo as my ony hair care routine for the past 2 almost 3 years, has strengthened my hair - I no longer get split ends and very little breakage - and catnip yields a light yellow dye.
I did hear back - apparently I have the copyright to my posts.
I therefore give you permission to quote them here - provided that you say where you got them from as you did - it was fine.
I will be happy to help out here - as I do on LHC.
I have and continue to do a lot of honey research - however my recommendations are based on the accredited reseach I find - I do not do the research myself - and the reports in the Honey thread.
I do not use honey lightening on my hair - I have used it to lighten freckles a bit on my hands.
Even if I did use it on my hair - I cover my grey/white streaks and condition my hair with catnip tea - lightening it would be counter productive to that and my scalp is sensitive to honey - an irony - my results would just be that - my results.
There is a Catnip for Split Ends thread on LHC - based on my posting that catnip tea for me - used with shampoo as my ony hair care routine for the past 2 almost 3 years, has strengthened my hair - I no longer get split ends and have very little breakage - and catnip yields a light yellow dye.
I am not entirely sure if I somehow violated copyright by posting my own post in entirety - I am waiting to hear back on that one - it gets confusing - what I do on LHC is post pieces of text in quotations - not complete text and post the link.
I may have to edit here.
Honey lightening and cassia.
They can be combined - however cassia is tricky - the pigment in it is acid sensitive.
The way to use cassia in a honey lightening recipe is this.
Use the 4 to 1 dilution - 4 parts water to 1 part honey. You can add cinnamom and extra virgin olive oil if you like.
Premix the cassia with water only just before adding it to the water honey mixture - do not let the cassia sit for dye release and do not add an acid to it like orange juice - separately.
Also remember that it is a honey lightening treatment with cassia - not a cassia treatment with honey - so use less cassia than you normally might.
If you go to the Honey thread and look at pg 1117 - I have the Pictures Post there too - you will see in the links what can happen with cassia when it was used in between honey lightening - undiluted honey was added to a cassia treatment after dye release for one hour - it had been premixed with orange juice - it turned honey lightened blonde hair reddish/gold. See firebird's results - her latest cassia recipe - her results are under "On blonde hair"
Once I researched cassia and understood the acidity connection - I suggested combining the cassia and honey lightening without extra acidity - orange juice - Vitamin C and honey lightening do not go together anyway - but in this case it was primarily about the acidity factor and cassia and it lightened the darkened cassia result.
Cassia can yield different colours - yellow, gold, red tones - in response to different acid solutions.
While I am here, does anyone know where Jarrah honey can be purchased in Tasmania? I know that most of the Jarrah honey "crop" was wiped out by drought affecting the Jarrah forest this year and that a new "crop" is expected and hoped for by your winter.
I recommended Jarrah honey to an LHC member from Tasmania - Jarrah honey has a high peroxide value.
I am the one who wrote that Article on the LHC forum and started the 4 Honey threads of which only 1 is current.
I am very flattered that you have reproduced some the material here.
However, you have mixed the old and the new together. That update was put into the last Honey thread which carried over from one website to another - they are owned by the same person. I now see where the mix up is.
The update was supposed to be a transition for people to follow the thread to the new, latest one.
The current recommendations for honey lightening do not include tomato products or any ingredients with Vitamin C.
To help you out I am going to post and link you to the newest Summary of recommendations that I completed not long ago. Within the post are links to further information and #13 has pictures from the thread of honey lightening results as well as a few pictures from previous honey threads.
The links do not work here - ok - if you go to the Long Hair Community and the boards for Recipes, Henna and Herbal Haircare, - you will find Honey thread - this post will have you caught up to the latest goings on - unfortunately - you cannot access the Pictures Post from here. Regards, ktani
Updated - These recommendations are based on accredited research and successful honey lightening reports in this thread.
A Comprehensive Summary of the newest honey lightening recommendations. Patch test any ingredient not previously used on the scalp or skin.
1. The 4 to 1 dilution is 4 parts water to 1 part honey. It is now the recommended dilution to be used for honey lightening. With this dilution, a treatment only needs to be left on the hair for 1 hour, because a honey will produce its maximum amount of peroxide in that time. According to reports posted in this thread, better results were achieved with the 4 to 1 dilution in 1 hour, than with repeated treatments using the old dilutions. Different honeys produce different levels of peroxide. Here is the Successful Honeys List - if one cannot be found - try a dark coloured honey blend - raw or pasteurized - both have been reported to work equally well. The minimum amount of honey to be used is 1/8th cup or 10 grams. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=856
2. The honey lightening boosters - ingredients that add extra peroxide to the recipes are; cardamom, cinnamon, coconut oil, extra virgin olive oil. Spices can be irritatiing - less is more with the 4 to 1 dilution - start with 1 tablespoon after patch testing - suggested maximum - 2 tablespoons. Oils can be difficult to wash out of the hair - suggested amount - 1 tablespoon.
3. Herbal teas if used instead of just plain or distilled water - chamomile - Roman chamomile is preferable but it is possible that chamomile can add a gold tone to the hair. Mullein - leaves only not flowers - the leaves are not known to add colour.
4. Herbal tea that is used with honey lightening needs to be cooled first to room temperature before any other ingredients are added to it. Do not add spices to a recipe after you have applied the recipe to your hair - if any dry spice spills - you risk skin irritation - mix the spices into a recipe. The spices will blend better, mixed into herbal tea, when the honey is added first.
5. For blondes, lighter hair colours, and hair colours where one does not want the possibility of added colour, plain or distilled water is better IMO, than risking added colour by using a herbal tea.
6. Plain water used with honey lightening should be room temperature only. Distilled water can be used at room temperature only as well. Do not add spices to a recipe after you have applied the recipe to your hair - if any dry spice spills - you risk skin irritation - mix the spices into a recipe. The spices will blend better, mixed into water, when the honey is added first.
7. No external heat should be used with honey lightening - no blow dryers, sunlight. None of the recipe ingredients except herbal tea when it is brewed, should be heated at any time. Heat (except body heat) can destroy hydrogen peroxide by decomposing it to water and oxygen. It depends on the degree of heat and the amount of time that it is applied. Pasteurization does not destroy the enzyme in honey that produces peroxide. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=883
8. No ingredients with a Vitamin C content (except cardamom, which has the highest peroxide value for a spice and a low Vitamin C content) should be used in the recipes. Hydrogen peroxide oxidizes Vitamin C and is depleted in doing so. Here is the Vitamin C content of ingredients list. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...&postcount=429
9. Conditioner is no longer recommended to be included in honey lightening recipes. Conditioner can contain ingredients that interfere with honey lightening and because of its water content (most conditioners are between 70 to 90 % water), if used as part of the 4 to 1 ratio, shorten the amount of water needed for optimal honey dilution. You can use conditioner only to wash out a honey lightening treatment, instead of using shampoo or just rinsing it out. If there is honey residue, shampoo and or a vinegar rinse is recommended and has been reported to easily resolve the problem.
10. The honey lightening recipes can be applied with a tint or blush brush for more control of placement.
11. Covering the hair during the 1 only hour needed for the treatments with plastic - a bag or wrap - is recommended to ensure the best results. This provides a constant moisture level, that allows the honey to produce peroxide uninterrupted. If the hair starts to dry - the honey slows its production of peroxide and it will stop producing peroxide altogether, if the hair dries completely. Misting the hair without the use of plastic is an option, provided that the hair is kept wet at all times during the treatment. Honey only produces peroxide when diluted and kept wet. The treatments can be left on the hair longer than 1 hour, if so desired. You can also let a recipe sit for 1 hour before applying it - to allow the honey to produce its maximum peroxide value.
12. Honey lightening has not been reported to damage hair even after repeated use, over long periods of time. What has been reported occassionally is dry hair and crunchy ends. That is a honey residue result, that can easily be resolved by shampooing and or a vinegar rinse. The effects are temporary when shampoo and or vinegar are used. Some honeys produce less residue than others. More on honey lightening, and research on the protective mechanisims in honey lightening recipe ingredients, can be found here. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1035
13. This is the updated Pictures Post of some past and current Honey thread, honey lightening results. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...postcount=1095 http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=143352&postcount=1164
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