fair enough KK, i don't intend to change you or prove you wrong, it's just something i couldn't leave alone. nothing a good psychologist couldn't fix.

this reminds me of the strange spasmodic twitch and idiotic tendencies i suffer when people feel completely comfortable describing themselves as vegetarian whilst eating fish. we even created new words and variations on the theme to support this stupidity.

anyway : i know what you mean, everyone else knows what you mean, so lets ignore irrelevancies and move on. my bad.

.........................................................

on a "somewhat related to the point" kind of angle, i would reinforce what harley said regarding preparation for a  fast/feast/diet/slow/medium. i can quote from experience - sorry, experiences - that the lifestyle you take into a fast, is usually/most probably what you will return to upon completion. if you're lucky. many - yes me - actually skip right past the bad lifestyle they had and end up setting new records for "bad." and then back again. and then back again. and then....

fasting will not help you improve your lifestyle. it's not a quick-fix. it should be used only once you have achieved a decent, stable level of health. spontaneous unprepared fasting is usually only used in emergency situations when an individual basically has little time and no real choice. all of these things i have learned were only learned by doing the complete opposite and failing miserably.

As someone who has never fasted ( I attempted but not strong enough... or time not right!) I am interested in this view. I thought that a good fast/feast would cleanse out the addictive stuff and make it easier to carry on afterwards.

I guess then that a fast should start in the mind. It's all coming back to the mind for me lately. Anyone agree?

FM, you got me laughing! I too cringe slightly at vegetarian fish eaters. My friend told me she was raised by her vegetarian mother. I was delighted and called her mum for recipes. It turns out she didn't eat red meat, and yes, she called herself a vegetarian. Hmmm. I asked for the chicken tree but in a humorous way. I didn't want her to feel bad.

I tend to think of "vegetarians" who eat fish 'vegetarians on L plates". Breaking that addiction one step at a time. Each to their own pace I think.

xoxoxo

I used to call myself vegetarian when i still ate fish mainly for the simplicity of it. Tell someone your vegetarian, they dont try to give you meat, tell someone you choose not to eat most meats with the exception of fish and you get a confused look and the offer of meat to eat.

The term is used for simplicity. Im sure many fish eaters are well aware that fish is an animal, and ive on countless occasions pointed out to people that fish requires an animal to die, therefore its meat (and this is to meat eaters that also seem to put it into its own category).

The reason so many fish eaters use the term vegetarian is that generally the decision not to eat red meat and chicken is based on the same principles as why people turn from meat altogether. If we want to get perdantic about whats a vegetarian, id argue that continuing to eat chips with gravy is not vegetarian (and ive seen many vegetarians do that). Even many hard core vegetarians will still eat foods containing gelatin without a thought.

Way i figure it, wherever the lines drawn, those people are making more effort than most, so if they want to use the term vegetarian and draw the line somewhere different to others, thats ok, the word itself says im not ok with farming practices and/or killing animals for food and or whatever the reasons may be.

Ive found similar issues with the label raw foodist as to what i found with the term vegetarian. If we can be almost raw, surely we can be almost vegetarian. But at the place ive come to in all this, blow the labels. I dont want to use any of them, im health conscious.

Yes I know.

I never said or thought it was a cure-all.

I realise for this to be beneficial on a long term basis, you will need to change your habits and mind-set permanently.

I have spent the last four months reading books on fasting and doing small fasts, to prepare myself. It’s not just some flash-in-the-pan-on-a-whim-thing.

DR went off on one of his normal tangents again, without actually answering the question (although I am happy about this, since he won me a $20.00 bet!) and I just couldn’t be bothered continuing the issue with him.

However, I got some excellent fasting retreat advice from others on this forum and via private mail, so I am happy with the result.

Thanks guys.

Edited due to spelling mistake

yes, lets not get distracted on language definitions. lets keep focused that we must treat the cause of a problem rather than the symptoms.

in my opinion its a rare person that should fast. that sort of person has already arrived at a place of health conviction. they have built solid beliefs that are unshakeable by any hype propganda, peer pressure, advertising etc out there. after the fast they will go back to the health supporting lifestyle that was already set up before the cleanse/fast etc.

just like chemo may reduce tumor size, just like a juice feast will reduce waist line, just like a water fast will 'cure' all digestive issues...but if the person goes back to what they were doing before..its all for naught.

people get into health mindset and just carry the medical mindset along with them. visits to doctors turn into visits to homeopaths, naturepaths, university qualified cooked nutritionists etc. they still take scripts, unatural foods and advice and magic potions to treat symptoms all the while saying how messed up the big pharma is.

spending big $ whilst going to health retreats that feed you salad whilst the staff eat chicken and chips aint the best way to build true health conviction. i only see people leave there with confusion and delusion. i know all the health retreats in oz. nice people most of them. but im yet to find someone walking their talk. someone with the caliber of the dougster or tim trader.

my continual question to anyone with health issues is 'whats your action plan to remove the cause of your problems?'

on a different note, i cant believe how many persimmons are pump'n in radelaide. its sugarville. what a majestic sight the leafless persimmon tree is fully laden with free carbs.

if the tree is on a property, ask the inhabitant the trees history. ive had many yarns with the euro crew that are happy to share the trees history.

i suspect grafted if a persimmon has no seeds. but i aint no percy farmer..so im not concrete on that.

someone said something on another thread about eating 17 bananas or equivalent is plain over eating..come on!
why is it always the people that dont understand calories in calories out are quick to jump to 'overeating' once a fruit meal is more than 2 bananas?

why do people that undereat fruit ALWAYS eat animal products and or cooked starches? answer :cos they gotta get calories from somewhere. the body would rather eat second class food than starve.

once people get an understanding that we need ENOUGH calories to function, not too much food, not too little food but ENOUGH food. and that amount is gonna vary for individuals. it varies for myself on any given day. one day im riding 5km. one day might be 5 hours with hormoned up tour de france riders and im 'chewing my handlebars' each climb or into the crosswinds. some days i burn 2000cals somedays its 17000!! so we need to get a basic understanding of how much fuel we need to continue forward motion.

why do we see such a dependence on cars for transport? does it have anything to do with the CHRONIC underconsumption of simple carbs from fruit? that people are gooped up on sub par food and only a latte will get em out of bed and on the bike etc? that walking to the corner shop or actually walking to the gym instead of driving to the gym to walk on a treadmill or do a spin class? am i missing something? lol!

i know i can walk up to ANYONE and say ' i ate 29 bananas for dinner last night' and they will think im crazy. they will say 'your nuts! thats a lot of bananas! youll get a gut ache!'
i tell em 'its just fruit on top of fruit..not fruit on top of grains, dairy or dead animals, i experience optimum digestion cos fruit cleans out the junk and i dont eat junk.., and for the record im not nuts! IM BANANAS!'

so get in touch with how much carbs YOU need to life the lifestyle you always dreamed of, requires. you wanna be a runner or star wheelchair athlete? then find out how much carbs you need to go the distance and start chowing that down today. cos all the motivation in the world wont keep you going when your blood sugar drops..

and all of a sudden you wont have a taste for the junk that is ripping your health apart. you wont have room. all the space will be taken up by the good stuff. the real deal. we are what we eat crew..SO KEEP IT REAL!

Hey Kebbster, that's good! Phew... 

Harley, I would agree that if I were doing a water fast and the kitchen crew were munching down on crazy stuff in front of me that I would be completely peeved. But they couldn't do a fast at the same time as me. Separate staff and faster's quarters would definitely be the go. but I've never been on one.

What's your thoughts? What's the best way to handle that?

xoxox