Thanks mate you're a good bloke and we all know where your heart is.  I started beating myself up last night over some of the things I said, but then I sat back and said it wasn't worth even doing that.  So I just accepted the past is the past and learnt a lesson from it.

Back to normal today

i will be honest with you john, when i went to pubs at night, the next morning i woke up feeling really not myself. the toxins from the smokes affect brain function. you will be able to contribute more when your man enough to quit putt'n fags in your mouth. you can do it bro!

melb: no photo..oh.

bp: ok so we have a vegan society now, the outlook is better than a vegetarian one. and i agree that people should come to a heartfelt lifestyle thru heartfelt actions and COS ITS THE RIGHT THING to do, rather than fear of penalty, disease, cost, thrashed body etc.  once i was training with a friend and she said 'he wouldnt cheat on me cos he know id kick his ass' and im like 'great, so your with a guy that would cheat but is scared of you..., best you find a guy that wouldnt cheat cos he believes ITS NOT RIGHT'...' 10 years on, 2 kids later, my friend is starting to agree with me..

lots of crew in the world are vegan cos of religious beliefs. and ive had a few vegansexual (only dates fellow vegans) friends say they wouldnt date a religious vegan cos they dont have the true intensity of a vegan that is vegan cos its the right thing to do rather than motivated by fear...

so yeah, bp: durianriders fruitopia involves everyone being 811rv by personal beliefs forged on personal conclusions..thats not to much to ask for a society is it?lol!  

da sachman: what is most valued to me? my health. cos without that im not on the planet, or im not fully alive and i cant give what i can give when my health is priming. and at the same time i will soak up emr's on computers to allow myself to contribute, etc. riding 1200km in 50hours probably aint the best thing for my adrenals. but it gets a message out. so we have to sit down and work out what we are trying to accomplish and how to maximise efficiency...

the following is off topic..

each day i go out training in the morning here i pass a big table full o meat. things are different in thailand. the meat industry is more raw. sure they still wrap it in plastic so consumers dont have the reality of blood on their hands or clothing but the meat stalls are open air. big slabs of murdered offerings with flies buzz'n and slaughterhouse smells in the air. makes me think what toxic perfumes they use back home to keep the smell of death covert...
anyways, i see meat eating motivated by fear. people get suckered in on tv with adds of a 10kg plate of spinach or dancing butchers that fit the typical australian male stereotype, ie doubled chin, troubled gut and bubbled butt. they dont want to 'label' themselves as a vegan or vego for 'fear' of being isolated(isolation comes from within crew). same crew use labels everday and in everyway to describe where they live, what they drive, eat, wear, watch, listen etc.

the fear mongering continues into science with hype on protein, iron, b12 etc. and we see that SCIENCE PROVES ITS ALL FALSE!

so we see the ignorant still consuming animal products and motivated by fear to do so.
in the raw world we have the primal diet, paleo diet etc. hyped up by a hollywood script writer named aajonus vonderplanitz. ive read his stuff and the dude can tell a superb story! i like the one how we tried fruitarianism and almost died. he decided to fast till the death but then a coyote killed a rabbit and fed it to him. he put on 50kg of muscle with no exercise and 'committed to eating at least 70% of my diet raw for ever' (page 48, we want to live)

im not sure if this happend before or after he nearly died from consuming death cap mushrooms. but either way we have another cult started by someone that aint even raw himself. he recomends eating white bread with raw unsalted butter. but his diet is better than mcdonalds for sure and people are going to get results. but i call it the 'mcRAW' diet. ie animal products are vital, just eat em raw. i do not see anyone thriving athletically on this diet. it doesnt allow one sufficient carbs to train aerobically enough to get sufficient lymph pump to maintain longterm health.

instead of saying 'changing the person' we could say 'increasing their effectiveness in reaching the target audience..'

oh what? What exactly is a photo going to serve? The skin of an 80yr old is not as good at the skin of a 10 year old, raw or not.  To show I have/haven't got single figure BMI?  I spent my teenage years covered in suntan oil and at 30 my ears fell off?  Walk the talk?  I am not saying do as I do otherwise there is no hope for you.  I don't have before and after photos, I was brought up high raw, raw is not some means to an end for me, it just is. I don't have to keep referring back to before raw, there is no before raw, there's no before and after drugs, there's no before and after high paying job, there is no before and after alcohol, no before and after smoking.  There is now.  How exactly is a photo meant to serve?

As I said before, I am not holding a photo up going look at me, look at the difference!  If I was, it would be inviting people to make comments - positive and negative - I'm not concerned about other people's comments enough to seek them out them in such a manner.

I've said your skin at your age could be reflecting some possible internal concerns, so I should post a photo? Really obvious link there.  Great debate  

Lol H...isn't that what's been said all along...that you would increase the effectiveness of you reaching your target audience if you did change your approach to it?

Maybe you can't (and that's not a crticism).

Jim....thanks for your reply mate, it meant a lot to me.

Sacha...I hear ya...but you'd have to actually talk to Rudy to understand his viewpoints in greater depth.

I had a 64 minute conversation with the man...and because of that I now have a deeper understanding of him and where he is coming from.

He has some interesting views that take a while to digest.

One thing we discussed was that some people need a kick in the arse and will respond better to that, than holding their hands and giving them a hug. While I tend to cringe at that view in some ways, I could not argue with Rudys logic when he explained it.

I guess the main thing I gained from my conversation with Rudy was just how easy it is to misunderstand where someone is coming from via the written word alone (like this forum fer example)....and that reactions come from perceptions....and often people react to a situation (and I guess any discussion) in ways that are not initially apparent, or even related to the actual situation or discussion....and we are all "guilty" of this.

That does not change the fact (to me) though that this IS the environment we are communicating within...it's "problematic" in some ways and I see no easy solution to it.

Rudy pointedly (and I should say gently) said that unless I was offering a solution I was offering nothing of any real value (my understanding and interpretation of his words, not his actual words)....so to me it's a dilemna.

And H....I have battles and hurdles to overcome in my life...and I will overcome them.

Do not ever think mate...that you have not been an inspiration to me personally...anyone who walks their talk to the extent you do deserves instant respect.

My only ever "issue" with you has been how you present it.

I'm still digesting a few things Rudy said to me....so I'll leave it at that for now.

John

*good point sacha.

*melb: what was the condition that caused your ears to fall off?



*check out this thread on another forum im on. its a vegan athlete forum. this thread is tame but others are no holds barred..be warned!

[url][http://www.veganfitness.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=223735#223735/url]

why is it that 811crew seem to have a  'kick ass' attitude..could it have anything to do with the fact that we are all athletes? that we know and live the fact that nutrition is affected by our daily movements. and athletes know that motivation comes from our languaging. ie :the better an athlete is, the better their positive self motivating talk.

the number of 100% raw vegans that i personally know have one thing in common..they are ALL excelling in their choosen athletic pursuits. be that personal and or competition based...they have fit, slim, defined bodies and know how to turn the worst into the best. they refuse to let circumstances control them. rather they control the circumstances...

sedentary is not an option. earn your meals crew.

You're a star Rudy.